Editorial note: Spoilers for “Too Much” ahead.
Michael Zegen knows you don’t like Zev Goldstein.
It’s not an unfamiliar feeling for him. The 46-year-old Jewish actor did play cheating ex-husband Joel Maisel on “The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel” after all. But with Zev, Jessica Salmon’s (Megan Stalter) ex-boyfriend in “Too Much,” things are a little different. Zegen tells me his wife, actress Jennifer Damiano, said she’d had enough of Zev after watching the show. Zegen admits that his parents have yet to watch “Too Much,” and he’s a bit nervous for them to see what his character does. Even he, who always struggles to watch himself act, was particularly uncomfortable watching himself as Zev.
Ironically, I think all this serves as testament that Michael Zegen is very good at his job. He is oh-so-compelling as the supremely detestable Zev. It’s a performance which will have you uttering, “May God bless and keep Zev… far away me.”
Over the course of “Too Much,” as Jess builds a new life for herself in London, we see flashbacks to her past relationship. We witness Zev undermine Jess, over time disabusing her of the idea that she is a unique individual worthy of love. He belittles her taste in music, TV and fashion and her career. He pressures her into giving away her beloved dog Cutesie. He begins flirting with Wendy Jones, the woman he dates after Jess, openly during their relationship. And when Zev ultimately makes Jess be the one to initiate the break-up, he is apathetic towards the revelation that Jess is pregnant. She ultimately gets an abortion all by herself.
But why is Zev the way he is? Is it really because of his Jewish mom, as he lays out in a therapy scene in episode eight? Is there anything redeemable about him at all?
Zegen sat down with me this week to discuss just that. Over the course of our conversation, we also touched on his reaction to the discourse surrounding Zev and Lena Dunham‘s real-life ex Jack Antonoff and his yearning to one day play a nice guy.
This interview is lightly edited and condensed for clarity.
You were just telling me that you finished watching “Too Much” the other day. What was your reaction?
I loved it. It’s tough watching myself in general. And this, for some reason, was really tough to watch myself in. But that being said, it was great and I’m happy with the overall product. But I’m such a dick [in it].
Yeah, I’d have to imagine that it’s hard to watch because your character is so irredeemable.
It’s tough to watch myself act in general. And then to act like such an asshole, and just know that everybody’s watching this like, with this anger inside them. I feel it. I’m getting weird looks on the streets right now. But nobody’s like – when I played Joel Maisel I had some really weird stuff said to me on the streets. And now people are just like, “Oh, you did a great job.” So maybe I’m OK.
What did people say to you?
That they hated me.
Oh, wow.
It happened multiple times. I’d just be walking down the street and people would be like, “Oh, you’re from ‘Maisel.’ I hate you, man.” And it’s like, OK. I mean, it was said out of appreciation for the show but, yeah. You don’t really want to hear that.
At least Joel got a redemption arc. Zev, as far as we’ve seen, hasn’t.
If there’s a season two, maybe we’ll get one. Maybe we can have more therapy sessions and see what the root of all his anger is.
Yes, I wanted to talk about that therapy scene. I’m so fascinated by it. Zev lays blame on his mom Sharon for being the stereotypical overbearing Jewish mom. But the audience never meets his mom, so you either have to take his word for it that she is the root cause of all his problems, or question it. For me, I don’t think she’s nearly as suffocating as he says that she is. Or, at the very least, she’s just more complicated than he says she is. But how did you interpret that scene?
That scene came out of a conversation that Lena and I had early on. I had a part on her show ‘Girls’ and we became friends after that. So she offered me the part of Zev, and I was all excited. And then I read the script and I’m like, “Oh, he’s a jerk.” Which is fun to play sometimes, too, you know. And just to be asked to be on Lena’s show, I’m obviously not going to say no. It’s a dream to work with her. She’s the best.
But we did talk about the character and I had a lot of questions. And one of the questions was: Well, so why does he like her? Why is he into Jess? And she was like, “I’ll get back to you.” And then she wrote this whole therapy scene. It answered some of my questions. He’s talking about his mother and maybe he has a slight Oedipal complex going on. He clearly seems to be attracted to sort of needy women. And I think his mother is very needy; he talks about the moment I walk into a room, I can smell it, you know, there’s this needy woman in need of me. I guess he gets off on that. But, you know, they cut some other stuff from that monologue in the therapy scene. I talk about Wendy Jones and how she doesn’t need me. I think he was trying something new with her, and maybe growing up and evolving a little bit. Maybe we’ll see more of them in a season two.
To me, it feels like someone told Zev – maybe Wendy Jones – like, you need to go to therapy. Seek treatment, you know? Because it doesn’t seem like something he would do on his own. I’m curious if he ends up sticking with it.
I’m curious too. I would love to see more of those scenes. That was really fun. Although we didn’t have much time to film it in England. In America, you could film as long as you want, and you get overtime. And in England, they have strict rules, and there is no overtime. So I think we did two takes of that monologue, and that was it.
That’s a lot of pressure.
Oh my god, yeah. It was one of my first days shooting, too. Janicza Bravo directed that episode, and she was wonderful and gave me great notes, which I used the second time I did it.
Did you create a motivation for him as to why he acts like he does beyond his mom?
Again, it was stuff that I talked to Lena about in trying to figure him out. There were some moments that were cut where you sort of sympathize with him. I don’t disagree with the cuts. They weren’t necessary. You don’t really need to see his angle. It’s Jess’s perspective. But, there were a few moments where it was like, Oh, maybe he’s not totally to blame for this.
Can you share any of the scenes that were cut?
You know, I don’t want to. Because maybe they’re going to use it in a second season. But I think you just saw her… I’m trying to say it without giving away anything… you see that Jess is maybe emotionally unstable. You see more aspects of that.
Totally fair to not want to share them. I do think what’s so great about the show is that all of the characters are so complicated and we get the chance to see their shit, and relate to them through their imperfection. As a viewer it’s wonderful to parse that.
But you still like Felix more than Zev. The last couple of days of shooting, the social media team was kind of going around videotaping people and asking them, “Are you Team Felix or Team Zev?” And they asked me, and I was like, who is Team Zev?
I think you’d be revealing something pretty dark about yourself to say you’re Team Zev.
It’s true. Or the kind of person that you’re attracted to.
But do you think Zev identifies as a Nice Jewish Boy? Because there is, unfortunately, an epidemic of not-so-nice Jewish boys who identify as NJBs.
Yeah, I think so. He’s Jewish, he’s not necessarily nice, but, you know, when you’re in a relationship with somebody for a long time, I feel like you get sort of comfortable maybe saying the things that you shouldn’t say. And I think Zev is no exception to that.
For sure.
But when they first meet, he’s very nice.
He’s extremely charming. Also, I did love that that scene was in the Alligator Lounge. It’s becoming such a spot in the pop culture sphere.
Is it?
Have you seen “The Rehearsal”?
Oh, was that in the first episode…
Yeah and Nathan Fielder creates a model of it that he uses in the first and second season.
I didn’t realize that that was the same one. It just hit me now. We shot there all night long. I think that was the last day of shooting.
That’s such a wild way to approach that character – entering through the therapy scene and then ending when he first meets Jess.
Actually my first, first scene was when I’m dancing at the wedding. That was terrifying. I remember Will Sharpe was sitting in front of me while I was dancing and when they yelled cut, he’s like, “Is this your first scene?” And I was like, “Yeah.” And he’s like, “That’s ballsy.” Which it is. But, what are you going to do? I want to make a good impression, you know.
But it was almost a gift to shoot the Alligator Lounge last because I had gotten to know Meg [Stalter], who’s incredible, already. We had this chemistry going into the scene, so that certainly helped. And she’s so big on improv. That takes a little practice for me. I’m not as proficient in improv – I haven’t taken a class in years. But getting to work with her and getting to know her style of work really helped that scene.
Like I said, Zev is so charming in that scene that it makes when he does horrible things later on so jarring. Was it challenging for you as an actor to have to embody him being horrible?
I mean, for me, it’s sort of second nature. I’m kidding. But it’s certainly challenging in that I really would love to play a nice guy one of these days, just like an inherently nice person who you like right off the bat. It’s another kind of character where people are like, no, no, wait until you get to episode five and then you totally sort of sympathize with him. I just want a character where you love this guy in the first scene.
I want that for you. I also wanted to ask about the last time we see Zev, or Jess’s idea of Zev. When Jess is finally able to let go of her trauma, in her mind’s eye, she goes to her and Zev’s old apartment and caresses Zev’s face. And as she does it, he’s sitting on the bed and reading “The Love Affairs of Nathaniel P.” I’m not sure if you’ve read it, but it’s about this Jewish writer guy who is very intellectual and literary and enlightened in that sense, but horrible to the women that he dates. I thought that was such a fun little Easter egg. Was that in the script?
You’re the second person who has pointed that out to me. It’s not in the script. On set there was a bookshelf, and Lena or somebody told me to choose a book that Zev is reading. And I didn’t choose that book. And then Lena was like, actually read this book. You’re reading this book. And she pulled “The Love Affairs of Nathaniel P.,” which she actually gave to me afterwards. She was like, “You should play this part someday.”
In your quest to play someone likable, I think perhaps not.
[Laughs.]
I also wanted to ask, as soon as Lena said that the show was semi-autobiographical, there was a lot of discussion surrounding your character of being a specific, real-life person. Is that frustrating to you as the person portraying Zev, especially considering you offered your input in creating this character?
It doesn’t mean anything to me, necessarily. It’s still my interpretation of this character. I’m still going to bring myself to it, whether I’m playing a real person or not. And nobody came up to me and told me that Zev is based on this real person from Lena’s past, or anything like that. There’s certainly speculation of who it could be based on. But I think that’s all false. Lena and I really did talk about it a lot, and she made changes. I know who a lot of people think Zev is. But I can tell you it’s not him.
I think it’s my least favorite conversation surrounding the show. It feels like such an uncurious way to approach engaging a piece of media. Like, don’t you want some room for movability?
And Meg is not playing Lena necessarily. A lot of the specifics of the show don’t match the reality of it all.
And how has the reception of the show been for you?
I’ve heard nothing but good things. And so many people are reaching out to me from high school and college and are telling me how much they love the show and how much they love me. I’m sort of in disbelief when people say that, because of who I’m playing. But they’re like, “Yeah, you’re so good at playing a dick.” So I’ll take it. And they know me and know I’m a good guy. I don’t know why I keep getting these parts, but I do think of myself as a nice guy. So I’m putting that on my vision board. Maybe for the next role, I’ll get to live out my dreams.
